Quote from BSUBass77 on December 5, 2023, 2:13 pm

I am not ok.  I think TG10 is our best QB.  But he has been under three coordinators in the last 3 years.  Is he the best passer?  No, but he is not that far off.  Maddog is a 61% and Taylen is 57%.  But Taylen was 61% last year. Is this a consistency problem where Taylen was pulled after a bad series?  Is it an OC problem where Bush just can't find the right scheme for Taylen?  Is he missing receivers or are they running routes incorrectly.  Is he not reading the D well enough?  So yes to all of this in some way or another.

But, Taylen opens up lanes for Jeanty just with his leg threat and with some long passes.  This team is better with Taylen and AJ2.  I hope Taylen comes back and works just a bit harder studying film and finding his targets.  I think he will.

Quote from Ezekiel Loseke on December 5, 2023, 4:59 pm

Frankly, we simply disagree on the facts. I, who am in no way a quarterback nor capable of playing it, can see clearly that the offense functioned better with Madsen under center. Green weighed the offense down because it could not throw when it needed to. I actually think Madsen had a more unpredictable playing rotation, but still fared better as a passer.

I don't think TG10's failure to throw well is on the coaching staff. Bush has a particular team, with a particular set of skills. Our line, for example, is really good at giving our quarterbacks time to pass. To make an offense built around them work, the quarterback has to actually be able to pass. If he cannot, it is the quarterback who needs a new system, as all the other peaces work without him.

As for the rest of the squad, when Madsen went in, he and the receivers were on the same page, he wasn't blowing touchdown throws by over-throwing or under throwing receivers, and the offense looked functional. If you change one part and the machine works, the problem isn't the machine, but the part you changed.

I think Taylen actually damages Jeanty and Holani because his passing is so inaccurate that the defense can load the box, not having to worry about getting beat deep. Why play defense when BSU misses all the throws it tries?

I hope Taylen finds a nice triple option, or RPO, team that runs a simple enough offense for him to master. I wish nothing but the best for him and Boise. I think parting ways is best for both.

Quote from tim5544 on December 5, 2023, 7:33 pm

Quote from Ezekiel Loseke on December 5, 2023, 4:59 pm

Frankly, we simply disagree on the facts. I, who am in no way a quarterback nor capable of playing it, can see clearly that the offense functioned better with Madsen under center. Green weighed the offense down because it could not throw when it needed to. I actually think Madsen had a more unpredictable playing rotation, but still fared better as a passer.

I don't think TG10's failure to throw well is on the coaching staff. Bush has a particular team, with a particular set of skills. Our line, for example, is really good at giving our quarterbacks time to pass. To make an offense built around them work, the quarterback has to actually be able to pass. If he cannot, it is the quarterback who needs a new system, as all the other peaces work without him.

As for the rest of the squad, when Madsen went in, he and the receivers were on the same page, he wasn't blowing touchdown throws by over-throwing or under throwing receivers, and the offense looked functional. If you change one part and the machine works, the problem isn't the machine, but the part you changed.

I think Taylen actually damages Jeanty and Holani because his passing is so inaccurate that the defense can load the box, not having to worry about getting beat deep. Why play defense when BSU misses all the throws it tries?

I hope Taylen finds a nice triple option, or RPO, team that runs a simple enough offense for him to master. I wish nothing but the best for him and Boise. I think parting ways is best for both.

I agree that parting ways is actually the best for both sides in this situation.  I was surprised to hear Danielson talk about calling Green and his dad to get him to stay.

There is a segment (BJ seemingly included, definitely Sanford) of the BSU followers that see Green as some super star.  He was beaten out by Madsen when both were healthy.  I don't see that changing in 2024 if Green were to stay.

Quote from BSUBass77 on December 6, 2023, 9:08 am

Quote from Ezekiel Loseke on December 5, 2023, 4:59 pm

Frankly, we simply disagree on the facts. I, who am in no way a quarterback nor capable of playing it, can see clearly that the offense functioned better with Madsen under center. Green weighed the offense down because it could not throw when it needed to. I actually think Madsen had a more unpredictable playing rotation, but still fared better as a passer.

I don't think TG10's failure to throw well is on the coaching staff. Bush has a particular team, with a particular set of skills. Our line, for example, is really good at giving our quarterbacks time to pass. To make an offense built around them work, the quarterback has to actually be able to pass. If he cannot, it is the quarterback who needs a new system, as all the other peaces work without him.

As for the rest of the squad, when Madsen went in, he and the receivers were on the same page, he wasn't blowing touchdown throws by over-throwing or under throwing receivers, and the offense looked functional. If you change one part and the machine works, the problem isn't the machine, but the part you changed.

I think Taylen actually damages Jeanty and Holani because his passing is so inaccurate that the defense can load the box, not having to worry about getting beat deep. Why play defense when BSU misses all the throws it tries?

I hope Taylen finds a nice triple option, or RPO, team that runs a simple enough offense for him to master. I wish nothing but the best for him and Boise. I think parting ways is best for both.

I guess I don't understand how facts can be disagreed upon.  Facts are facts. What we may disagree upon is which facts are the most important.

Regardless, the important facts for me is that TG was very effective last year when Koetter called the plays.  Koetter, with so much experience designed plays that maximized TGs capabilities.  This is not a dig against Bush, but he doesn't have the years of experience.  Since the head coach change and the Maddog injury, Bush and TG have been in synch.  I would like that to continue.

I will give you this, TG needs a stable system and QB coach to get to his potential.  I am not sure he will have that at BSU.  For that reason, it might be best for him to transfer.  I remember Jordan Love being selected in the first round thinking "What?"  The guy was barely functional against us. Apparently he had untapped potential and now he is winning games.

The transfer portal might bring in another QB that will compete for the job.  Maddog had some good games, but he had some that were not.  Hopefully we can get a transfer that will compete and that the coaches will take seriously.  When Jaylen Henderson came here, he didn't get a shot because we had a 4star freshman.  Henderson was by far the best QB that year.

Quote from Ezekiel Loseke on December 7, 2023, 7:03 am

Quote from tim5544 on December 5, 2023, 7:33 pm

Quote from Ezekiel Loseke on December 5, 2023, 4:59 pm

Frankly, we simply disagree on the facts. I, who am in no way a quarterback nor capable of playing it, can see clearly that the offense functioned better with Madsen under center. Green weighed the offense down because it could not throw when it needed to. I actually think Madsen had a more unpredictable playing rotation, but still fared better as a passer.

I don't think TG10's failure to throw well is on the coaching staff. Bush has a particular team, with a particular set of skills. Our line, for example, is really good at giving our quarterbacks time to pass. To make an offense built around them work, the quarterback has to actually be able to pass. If he cannot, it is the quarterback who needs a new system, as all the other peaces work without him.

As for the rest of the squad, when Madsen went in, he and the receivers were on the same page, he wasn't blowing touchdown throws by over-throwing or under throwing receivers, and the offense looked functional. If you change one part and the machine works, the problem isn't the machine, but the part you changed.

I think Taylen actually damages Jeanty and Holani because his passing is so inaccurate that the defense can load the box, not having to worry about getting beat deep. Why play defense when BSU misses all the throws it tries?

I hope Taylen finds a nice triple option, or RPO, team that runs a simple enough offense for him to master. I wish nothing but the best for him and Boise. I think parting ways is best for both.

I agree that parting ways is actually the best for both sides in this situation.  I was surprised to hear Danielson talk about calling Green and his dad to get him to stay.

There is a segment (BJ seemingly included, definitely Sanford) of the BSU followers that see Green as some super star.  He was beaten out by Madsen when both were healthy.  I don't see that changing in 2024 if Green were to stay.

I understand that Green is a unique athlete, tall, fast, powerful, and he looks like an NFL superstar, until you see him throw. I think people see in him the opposite of Kellen Moore. A guy with all the boxes checked who could be drafted in the first round. Thing is, I liked having Kellen Moore. I liked winning games with a reliable and intelligent quarterback who only lost 4 games in his tenure at BSU. I prefer to win at this level with guys that fit our system rather than lose at this level with guys who can get drafted.

Quote from Ezekiel Loseke on December 7, 2023, 7:17 am

Quote from BSUBass77 on December 6, 2023, 9:08 am

Quote from Ezekiel Loseke on December 5, 2023, 4:59 pm

Frankly, we simply disagree on the facts. I, who am in no way a quarterback nor capable of playing it, can see clearly that the offense functioned better with Madsen under center. Green weighed the offense down because it could not throw when it needed to. I actually think Madsen had a more unpredictable playing rotation, but still fared better as a passer.

I don't think TG10's failure to throw well is on the coaching staff. Bush has a particular team, with a particular set of skills. Our line, for example, is really good at giving our quarterbacks time to pass. To make an offense built around them work, the quarterback has to actually be able to pass. If he cannot, it is the quarterback who needs a new system, as all the other peaces work without him.

As for the rest of the squad, when Madsen went in, he and the receivers were on the same page, he wasn't blowing touchdown throws by over-throwing or under throwing receivers, and the offense looked functional. If you change one part and the machine works, the problem isn't the machine, but the part you changed.

I think Taylen actually damages Jeanty and Holani because his passing is so inaccurate that the defense can load the box, not having to worry about getting beat deep. Why play defense when BSU misses all the throws it tries?

I hope Taylen finds a nice triple option, or RPO, team that runs a simple enough offense for him to master. I wish nothing but the best for him and Boise. I think parting ways is best for both.

I guess I don't understand how facts can be disagreed upon.  Facts are facts. What we may disagree upon is which facts are the most important.

I think people can disagree about facts in several ways. In the first place, I agree with you, they can disagree about the importance of facts, or prioritization of facts, the overall disagreement results in a disagreement about an overall fact. The example here is, the fact--or non fact--that TG10 is the best team for BSU in the future depends upon how important each fact is in relation to the purpose or final cause of those facts.

I think another way people can disagree about facts is to disagree about the methodology necessary to find them. The classic example of this in my field, which is Political Science, is quantitative reasoning (statistical analysis) vs philosophic analysis.

I think a third way people can disagree about facts is if they share the same methodology, but they produce different results. We may, for example, agree that producing a statistical model is the best way to determine the truth. We may agree with the formulas necessary for the model, but we may construct two different models that produce two different outcomes.

I'm sorry to go on about this. I just think it is interesting to think about.

Tl;dr: I think we can disagree about facts in a number of ways.

You said:

"The important facts for me is that TG was very effective last year when Koetter called the plays.  Koetter, with so much experience designed plays that maximized TGs capabilities.  This is not a dig against Bush, but he doesn't have the years of experience.  Since the head coach change and the Maddog injury, Bush and TG have been in synch.  I would like that to continue."

I agree with this. TG10 was functional under Koetter, and he has been in the last three weeks with Bush. My problem with both is that the offenses didn't maximize our offensive potential. We barely threw the ball at all. In the championship game, for example, we only threw 15 times, and one of them was still a pick 6. I just think Madsen is better suited to run a long0term, balanced offense. Green can run an offense that only runs, but that fails in the two minute drive and end of game situations.

"I will give you this, TG needs a stable system and QB coach to get to his potential.  I am not sure he will have that at BSU.  For that reason, it might be best for him to transfer.  I remember Jordan Love being selected in the first round thinking "What?"  The guy was barely functional against us. Apparently he had untapped potential and now he is winning games."

I think this is a fair concession. I would also point out that Mr. Love has had a very bad second half of the season in Green Bay, and frequently fails to make accurate passes and good reads.

You said:

"The transfer portal might bring in another QB that will compete for the job."

I hope for that too. I hope we go get the UNLV quarterback if we can.

"Maddog had some good games, but he had some that were not.  Hopefully we can get a transfer that will compete and that the coaches will take seriously."

I also agree with this. I do not think Mad Dog was perfect by anymeans. I only mean to point out he was, in my opinion, far and away better than Green.

"When Jaylen Henderson came here, he didn't get a shot because we had a 4star freshman.  Henderson was by far the best QB that year."

Was that under Harsin? I do not recall.

Quote from BSUBass77 on December 7, 2023, 2:15 pm

"When Jaylen Henderson came here, he didn't get a shot because we had a 4star freshman.  Henderson was by far the best QB that year."

Was that under Harsin? I do not recall.

 

Yes.  And Bachmeier was the Freshman QB.  Henderson, in my opinion, was the best QB, but was stuck behind Bachmeier and Chord. Many might not remember that after BSU won the MWC championship in 2019, Harsin benched Henderson and started Bachmeier in the bowl game.  That was against UDub and was Petes' last game.  Henderson might have struggled in that game and did later on when Harsin subbed him in.  But Bachmeier really had problems.

That was four years ago so no reason to beat that horse any further.

I agree on your other points.  I doubt TG will be back or we would know by now (maybe by end of week).  I wish him well.  Time to move to the next chapter.

Quote from BSUaddict on December 7, 2023, 3:02 pm

Seems like its confirmed that TG wont be part of the program any longer

Boise State transfer quarterback Taylen Green plans to visit Arkansas this weekend, per a source.

He also plans to visit LSU, Cal, BYU and Oregon State prior to the dead period starting on the 16th.

He's OUT for the LA Bowl, and return to Boise State is unlikely.

— B.J. Rains (@BJRains) December 7, 2023

Quote from ian on December 7, 2023, 10:47 pm

I’m okay with his transfer. He has superstar potential but mechanics and reads didn’t seem to improve this year over last.

Might be mutually beneficial for his development and for Boise to get a real competition going in the QB room for ‘24.

Most worried about Hamdan’s recruiting ability. There really should have been another scholarship QB in that room this year but Bush never offered anyone (maybe an Avalos issue?). R-So, R-Fr, walkon R-Fr, true-Fr was bananas IMO to start the season. And here we are with a walkon freshman and a true freshman left to play the bowl game. What a cluster.

Next year:

r-So Maddog coming off injury

r-So w.o. Fulton (maybe offered scholly depending on bowl performance?)

r-Fr Tiller (who surprisingly still is behind Fulton)

We’ll see after bowl game but my guess is one of the two remaining QBs isn’t still here next year. And there really should be 4 or 5 scholarship QBs plus a walkon or 2.

Kaleb Annett (#97 HS QB recruit) is committed.

I still think it would be a snart idea to bring a high level transfer (or two) in. Lest we be in a similar situation next year.